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Have other readers had problems parking at Tesco?
I RECENTLY parked at Tesco Extra, Altrincham. On returning to my car my daughter noticed I had got a parking ticket which surprised me, as I had only been there for just over an hour. I spoke to the parking attendant who informed me that the sensor that had registered my vehicle had exceeded the maximum time allowed and that I would have to appeal.
Fortunately I had filled up with petrol at a local petrol station before going to Tesco, and had a customer copy receipt showing I had paid for petrol at 10.52 a.m. The parking ticket was issued at 12.07 p.m. which proved I had not exceeded the 3 hours allowed in Tesco. I accordingly wrote to Central Ticketing. The letter I received from them informed me that my appeal had been unsuccessful on this occasion! This car park operates a sensor-controlled system and sends a message to their computer system when a vehicle has overstayed the maximum time allowed. I had to forward payment within 10 days of £40 and if this was not received my case would be passed to debt recovery agents and would result in an increase to £135 plus further administration cost and in addition court action may be taken against me.
The whole incident has been most upsetting, I have been driving for over 30 years and this is the first time I have received a parking ticket. I have paid the fine as I don't want legal action taken against me.
I would be interested to know if anyone else has had this happen to them whilst parking at Tesco Extra, Altrincham.
P. Egerton, Altrincham.
4:20pm Monday 21st April 2008
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CommentPosted by: Matt, Altrincham on 4:55pm Mon 21 Apr 08
Firstly, you should not have paid the ticket. Parking companies often increase the fine if you do not pay quickly enough, however this is 100% unenforcable. The initial fine is the value of the fine unless they take you to court, and win. If they increase the amount you owe simply write to the police and ask them to investigate.
As you had not parked in Tescos at the time stated, it's up to them to prove you were there. Should this happen to anyone else, the only evidence that will be applicable in court is photographs of your car in the same spot more than three hours apart.
Any other evidence would be thrown out, as just walking over the sensors can set them off.
Tescos have a really clever idea here, but because they're basically handing full responsibility over to another company, they just
To anyone who recieves a parking ticket unjustly: Do not pay it, appeal it, and then appeal the appeal. Every time I've helped anyone fight a parking ticket after one or two letters the council / parking agency usually stop contacting them.
In answer to your final point, I know a few people who have recieved tickets in this car park, but I do not yet know of anyone who has been prosecuted.
Firstly, you should not have paid the ticket. Parking companies often increase the fine if you do not pay quickly enough, however this is 100% unenforcable. The initial fine is the value of the fine unless they take you to court, and win. If they increase the amount you owe simply write to the police and ask them to investigate.
As you had not parked in Tescos at the time stated, it's up to them to prove you were there. Should this happen to anyone else, the only evidence that will be applicable in court is photographs of your car in the same spot more than three hours apart.
Any other evidence would be thrown out, as just walking over the sensors can set them off.
Tescos have a really clever idea here, but because they're basically handing full responsibility over to another company, they just
To anyone who recieves a parking ticket unjustly: Do not pay it, appeal it, and then appeal the appeal. Every time I've helped anyone fight a parking ticket after one or two letters the council / parking agency usually stop contacting them.
In answer to your final point, I know a few people who have recieved tickets in this car park, but I do not yet know of anyone who has been prosecuted.
Posted by: Mrs Brown, Altrincham on 7:55pm Mon 21 Apr 08
I heard about another person who was recently sent a ticket wrongly claiming they had stayed longer than 3 hours. They managed to prove that they weren't there for that length of time. It does make one wonder how accurate are these sensors in the Tesco car park!
I heard about another person who was recently sent a ticket wrongly claiming they had stayed longer than 3 hours. They managed to prove that they weren't there for that length of time. It does make one wonder how accurate are these sensors in the Tesco car park!
Posted by: Chris on 8:42pm Mon 21 Apr 08
I sat in my car in Tesco a few nights back watching people come and go whilst i was waiting to pick someone up. These sensors change colour when a space is free. But if people take a spot that someone else has moved out of very quickly, i noticed the sensors did not change colour. So do the sensors think that it is still the same person parked there?
Just a thought....
I sat in my car in Tesco a few nights back watching people come and go whilst i was waiting to pick someone up. These sensors change colour when a space is free. But if people take a spot that someone else has moved out of very quickly, i noticed the sensors did not change colour. So do the sensors think that it is still the same person parked there?
Just a thought....
Posted by: Matt, Altrincham on 1:40pm Tue 22 Apr 08
Chris, I think you are correct. In order to account for fluctuations the sensonrs seem to have a timer that is a little too long. That's what the cause of the other incidents I've heard of was too.
Interestingly however, because we can clearly demonstrate that the system is unreliable, it means you don't have to pay even if you WERE in the car part for over three hours.
So take note people; stop paying your fines!
Chris, I think you are correct. In order to account for fluctuations the sensonrs seem to have a timer that is a little too long. That's what the cause of the other incidents I've heard of was too.
Interestingly however, because we can clearly demonstrate that the system is unreliable, it means you don't have to pay even if you WERE in the car part for over three hours.
So take note people; stop paying your fines!
Posted by: Sheila, Timperley on 5:53pm Thu 24 Apr 08
I suggest people with this problem bombard the Chief Executive of Tescos with complaints about the disreputable company who are running the car park for them! He is obliged to respond to you. Perhaps this will bring the inadequacies of the car parking system to his attention & the way in which the Contractor is operating. Why don't they do like Sainsburys etc who charge for the parking then give your money back when you shop.
I suggest people with this problem bombard the Chief Executive of Tescos with complaints about the disreputable company who are running the car park for them! He is obliged to respond to you. Perhaps this will bring the inadequacies of the car parking system to his attention & the way in which the Contractor is operating. Why don't they do like Sainsburys etc who charge for the parking then give your money back when you shop.
Posted by: C Evans, Timperley on 7:00pm Fri 25 Apr 08
The weekend before Easter I had a charge after 2 hours in the car park at Tesco Altrincham. After getting very no help from the Altrincham store I contacted Tesco Customer Services and eventually dealt with Graham Wallace who had the charge cancelled and assured me that the system would be checked, this took 6 days of phone calls and e-mails. I no longer shop at Tesco as I have no faith in the sensor system installed.
The weekend before Easter I had a charge after 2 hours in the car park at Tesco Altrincham. After getting very no help from the Altrincham store I contacted Tesco Customer Services and eventually dealt with Graham Wallace who had the charge cancelled and assured me that the system would be checked, this took 6 days of phone calls and e-mails. I no longer shop at Tesco as I have no faith in the sensor system installed.
Posted by: anonymous, Sale on 1:07pm Sat 26 Apr 08
I often shop at Tesco in Altrincham but now I won't chance it. It costs enough as it is for a weekly shop without the cost of a fine on top.
I think I will go elsewhere in future.
I often shop at Tesco in Altrincham but now I won't chance it. It costs enough as it is for a weekly shop without the cost of a fine on top.
I think I will go elsewhere in future.
Posted by: Michael on 9:18pm Sun 27 Apr 08
When the Tesco Altrincham car park is busy, loads of people park on the end of rows, next to the building etc ie,. not in parking bays. Will the car park operators ticket these cars 1st before people parked in bays ? My guess is that Tesco have been forced into this charging system by the Council who are miffed that people use Tesco as a free car park rather than the extortionate fees for their own car park - however the way it is looking in Altrincham Tesco will soon be the only shop left to shop in !
When the Tesco Altrincham car park is busy, loads of people park on the end of rows, next to the building etc ie,. not in parking bays. Will the car park operators ticket these cars 1st before people parked in bays ? My guess is that Tesco have been forced into this charging system by the Council who are miffed that people use Tesco as a free car park rather than the extortionate fees for their own car park - however the way it is looking in Altrincham Tesco will soon be the only shop left to shop in !
Posted by: Every££L
ittle££H
elps on 11:46pm Sun 27 Apr 08
Grrrr! People who create their 'own bays' by plonking themselves on the ends of rows. Ticket them first! I agree, with Michael on that. And Paul is right too - come on, Messenger, get us some official responses on this debacle.
Grrrr! People who create their 'own bays' by plonking themselves on the ends of rows. Ticket them first! I agree, with Michael on that. And Paul is right too - come on, Messenger, get us some official responses on this debacle.
Posted by: David, Timperley on 2:43pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Although I have not been caught by the dodgy sensors I have witnessed 2 people who have.
Tesco, or the firm who manage the car park for them, do not provide proof of time of entry to the car park so there is no way people can prove how long they have been there.
This is a scam and no one should pay the fine. Let them take you to court and they will be told 'innocent until proven guilty'.
I wrote to both the Tesco Altrincham store manager and their Head Office saying that I would risk parking there until the system had been modified to include proof of arrival.
No one from Tesco has replied which sums up their arrogance and lack of regard for their customers.
My family and I now enjoy shopping elsewhere, so that's 20+ customers Tesco have lost.
Although I have not been caught by the dodgy sensors I have witnessed 2 people who have.
Tesco, or the firm who manage the car park for them, do not provide proof of time of entry to the car park so there is no way people can prove how long they have been there.
This is a scam and no one should pay the fine. Let them take you to court and they will be told 'innocent until proven guilty'.
I wrote to both the Tesco Altrincham store manager and their Head Office saying that I would risk parking there until the system had been modified to include proof of arrival.
No one from Tesco has replied which sums up their arrogance and lack of regard for their customers.
My family and I now enjoy shopping elsewhere, so that's 20+ customers Tesco have lost.
Posted by: Paul, Blackburn on 5:00pm Fri 2 May 08
Companies like Central Ticketing have no legal power at all. They make their tickets look official to scare people, but the reality is they are not authorised to penalise people - they rely on the claim that by reading the car park signs you entered into a contract with them. Only the driver of the vehicle could be said to have entered into any contract, so do not tell them who was driving. If they contact you point out that they will need to prove you were driving in court and that you are under no obligation to tell them who was driving. Furthermore, as they are not authorised to charge "penalties" all they could justify charging is the damages incurred by the landowner or themselves if they are an agent of the landowner. These damages presumably would be minimal (or non-existent in some cases where they issue a ticket due to a technicality) and any attempt in court to enforce a contract that was clearly trying to charge a "penalty" above what would be considered reasonable damages would be considered unenforcable. Also, if they are trying to make their documentation look like it carries legal weight and that they have some kind of power they could be breaking the law. You do not need to pay companies like Central Ticketing. Just let them send letters from debt collectors and invite them to sue. If you can use the above arguments they will lose. Of course they want you to think otherwise: they rely on people being misinformed and scared.
Companies like Central Ticketing have no legal power at all. They make their tickets look official to scare people, but the reality is they are not authorised to penalise people - they rely on the claim that by reading the car park signs you entered into a contract with them. Only the driver of the vehicle could be said to have entered into any contract, so do not tell them who was driving. If they contact you point out that they will need to prove you were driving in court and that you are under no obligation to tell them who was driving. Furthermore, as they are not authorised to charge "penalties" all they could justify charging is the damages incurred by the landowner or themselves if they are an agent of the landowner. These damages presumably would be minimal (or non-existent in some cases where they issue a ticket due to a technicality) and any attempt in court to enforce a contract that was clearly trying to charge a "penalty" above what would be considered reasonable damages would be considered unenforcable. Also, if they are trying to make their documentation look like it carries legal weight and that they have some kind of power they could be breaking the law. You do not need to pay companies like Central Ticketing. Just let them send letters from debt collectors and invite them to sue. If you can use the above arguments they will lose. Of course they want you to think otherwise: they rely on people being misinformed and scared.
Posted by: Ed Thomspon, Altrincham on 1:35pm Sat 3 May 08
Happened to us too and we stupidly stupidly paid the fine. Central ticketing are a bunch of scammers and that new parking system is a joke! We had a ticket after less than 2 hours but had no suitable proof and just didn’t want all the hassle. If I’d known so many other were in the same situation id have never ever paid. Whatever happens don’t pay these jokers will never have the guts to take anyone to court and they cant send people around without a court document. Don’t get fooled into thinking these tickets are in any way official either. Strictly speak they are only allowed to charge you for the money they lost from your overstay (if you do overstay) and since that car park is free, that’s £0!
Happened to us too and we stupidly stupidly paid the fine. Central ticketing are a bunch of scammers and that new parking system is a joke! We had a ticket after less than 2 hours but had no suitable proof and just didn’t want all the hassle. If I’d known so many other were in the same situation id have never ever paid. Whatever happens don’t pay these jokers will never have the guts to take anyone to court and they cant send people around without a court document. Don’t get fooled into thinking these tickets are in any way official either. Strictly speak they are only allowed to charge you for the money they lost from your overstay (if you do overstay) and since that car park is free, that’s £0!
Posted by: Rupe, Altrincham on 12:13pm Fri 9 May 08
As an occasional and brief visitor to Tesco's car park in Altrincham I am alarmed at the penalties given out in error to other motorists who have stayed within the 3hr rule. Or is 2hr?
So when I next visited the carpark recently I spent a few minutes investigating how the system worked and where the errors could be made, assuming the other correspondents to be straightforward in their reports. It didnt take too long to get an understanding and I am sure myself and other readers here would welcome Tesco's comments and corrections.
The system in Tesco' s would appear to be both deceptive and error prone in that it relies critically on human interaction. And there appears to be no direct link between the identity of the car and the time it arrived, no image or identification is made of the car when it parks.
Basically the ultrasonic (i.e. high freq sound) sensor above or under the car detects the arrival of a car and changes the indicator from green to red. This also starts a timer somewhere in the control system. When the car is moved away the timer is reset and waits to be triggered again by the next car. If this does not happen before the 3hr limit a notice is issued to a Tesco or is it Central Parking - no matter it's Tesco's brand) operator who then has to make their way to the vehicle, note its number plate and then processes the penalty notice presumably through the DVLA. The parking bays are identified by little numbered plaques embedded into the tarmac ground.
In principle this system is functional but does suffer from several obvious vulnerabilities
These flaws render Tesco's arrogance at not revising their penalties to compainants' bomb-proof submissions both upsetting and surprising.
As I understand it these are where the errors could arise 1. The sensor fails to detect (dirty, faulty) a car leaving the parking space and simply accumulates several cars' times until the 3hr limit is reached when the unlucky car that' s there then gets fined. 2. The number embedded in the tarmac and the number plates are all read by and entered into the system by human beings who are both inefficient and error prone at recording numbers (and times) unless they are trained accountants. 3. The embedded numbers may or may not correspond exactly to the overhead sensor. Obviously this is easily fixed but as the system is so new and the carpark so large and haphazard there is a real risk of this.
'Number plate recognition' may be used too but there is no evidence for this apart from unsuitable, very high surveillance-only cameras.
Better signage would help too setting out what the penalties are and when and how they would be imposed and with less bizarre spin about their customer's best interests.
Now, obviously proper maintenance and training can mitigate all these problems and I’m sure Tesco will reply stating adamantly they are and have.
But for Tesco's to be so dismissive of proven, faulty penalties is astonishing, craven and disappointing.
It is an irresponsible abuse of its dominant and suffocating presence in the middle of my town.
As an occasional and brief visitor to Tesco's car park in Altrincham I am alarmed at the penalties given out in error to other motorists who have stayed within the 3hr rule. Or is 2hr?
So when I next visited the carpark recently I spent a few minutes investigating how the system worked and where the errors could be made, assuming the other correspondents to be straightforward in their reports. It didnt take too long to get an understanding and I am sure myself and other readers here would welcome Tesco's comments and corrections.
The system in Tesco' s would appear to be both deceptive and error prone in that it relies critically on human interaction. And there appears to be no direct link between the identity of the car and the time it arrived, no image or identification is made of the car when it parks.
Basically the ultrasonic (i.e. high freq sound) sensor above or under the car detects the arrival of a car and changes the indicator from green to red. This also starts a timer somewhere in the control system. When the car is moved away the timer is reset and waits to be triggered again by the next car. If this does not happen before the 3hr limit a notice is issued to a Tesco or is it Central Parking - no matter it's Tesco's brand) operator who then has to make their way to the vehicle, note its number plate and then processes the penalty notice presumably through the DVLA. The parking bays are identified by little numbered plaques embedded into the tarmac ground.
In principle this system is functional but does suffer from several obvious vulnerabilities
These flaws render Tesco's arrogance at not revising their penalties to compainants' bomb-proof submissions both upsetting and surprising.
As I understand it these are where the errors could arise 1. The sensor fails to detect (dirty, faulty) a car leaving the parking space and simply accumulates several cars' times until the 3hr limit is reached when the unlucky car that' s there then gets fined. 2. The number embedded in the tarmac and the number plates are all read by and entered into the system by human beings who are both inefficient and error prone at recording numbers (and times) unless they are trained accountants. 3. The embedded numbers may or may not correspond exactly to the overhead sensor. Obviously this is easily fixed but as the system is so new and the carpark so large and haphazard there is a real risk of this.
'Number plate recognition' may be used too but there is no evidence for this apart from unsuitable, very high surveillance-only cameras.
Better signage would help too setting out what the penalties are and when and how they would be imposed and with less bizarre spin about their customer's best interests.
Now, obviously proper maintenance and training can mitigate all these problems and I’m sure Tesco will reply stating adamantly they are and have.
But for Tesco's to be so dismissive of proven, faulty penalties is astonishing, craven and disappointing.
It is an irresponsible abuse of its dominant and suffocating presence in the middle of my town.
Posted by: Mike, Hull on 4:15pm Sat 10 May 08
St Stephens in Hull. Exactly the same today. Car clocked in by parking sensor at 10.21. didn't actually arrive until 11.30!
St Stephens in Hull. Exactly the same today. Car clocked in by parking sensor at 10.21. didn't actually arrive until 11.30!
Posted by: Hugh, Broadheath on 5:31pm Sat 10 May 08
Only the local council, a traffic warden or the police can issue a fine. These Tesco ticket's are not fines but little more than invoices issued for an alleged breach of the terms and conditions of the car park.
I suggest that before paying one of these tickets, people should acquaint themselves with their rights by visiting either http://forums.pepipo
o.com/index.php?show
forum=30 or http://www.consumera
ctiongroup.co.uk/for
um/parking-traffic-o
ffences/
Only the local council, a traffic warden or the police can issue a fine. These Tesco ticket's are not fines but little more than invoices issued for an alleged breach of the terms and conditions of the car park.
I suggest that before paying one of these tickets, people should acquaint themselves with their rights by visiting either http://forums.pepipo
o.com/index.php?show
forum=30 or http://www.consumera
ctiongroup.co.uk/for
um/parking-traffic-o
ffences/
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